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How could the days of Genesis 1 be literal if the Sun wasn’t created until the fourth day?

http://discussions.godandscience.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34543&p=85118#p85118

I tried to explain it best here.. Basically the atmosphere was cleared to reveal the sun and stars on day 4. In the fourth day it doesn't say that God created the sun, moon and the stars. It states that he "made" them, which is the Hebrew word "asa" translated as the verb "made". When the Hebrew word "asa" is used it is usually used to denote an action already completed.

Genesis 1:16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

Genesis 1:16 simply does not specify when in the past the sun, moon, and stars were made. However in Genesis 1:1, it does says that it was created using the Hebrew word "erets" or "hashamayim we ha' erets," heavens (plural) and the earth (singular). "Hashamayim we ha' erets" consistently refers to the totality of the physical universe. All matter and energy and whatever else it contains....





http://creation.com/how-could-the-days-of-genesis-1-be-literal-if-the-sun-wasnt-created-until-the-fourth-day

We know today that all it takes to have a day-night cycle is a rotating Earth and light coming from one direction. The Bible tells us clearly that God created light on the first day, as well as the Earth. Thus we can deduce that the Earth was already rotating in space relative to this created light.

God can, of course, create light without a secondary source. We are told that in the new heavens and Earth there will be no need for sun or moon (Rev 21:23). In Genesis, God even defines a day and a night in terms of light or its absence.

‘Progressive creationists’ sometimes use the argument that the days are really long periods, although God could have used words for that if He had really meant that (see How long were the days of Genesis 1?). The creation of the sun after the Earth undermines progressive creationists’ attempts to harmonise the Bible with billions of years. So they must explain this teaching away. Some assert that what really happened on this fourth ‘day’ was that the sun and other heavenly bodies ‘appeared’ when a dense cloud layer dissipated after millions of years. This is not only fanciful science, but bad exegesis of Hebrew. The word ‘asah means ‘make’ throughout Genesis 1, and is sometimes used interchangeably with ‘create’ (bara’), e.g. in Genesis 1:26–27. It is pure desperation to apply a different meaning to the same word in the same grammatical construction in the same passage, just to fit in with atheistic evolutionary ideas like the ‘big bang’. If God had meant ‘appeared’, then He presumably would have used the Hebrew word for appear (ra’ah), as when the dry land ‘appeared’ as the waters gathered in one place on Day 3 (Genesis 1:9). We have checked over 20 major translations, and all clearly teach that the sun, moon and stars were made on the fourth day.

The evidence that ordinary days are being referred to is so overwhelming that even liberal Hebrew scholars admit that the author can have had no other intent — particularly when the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’ are used from the first day. (See The Creation Answers Book Chapter 2, and Six Days? Honestly!)

On the fourth day the present system was instituted as the Earth’s temporary light-bearers were made, so the diffused light from the first day was no longer needed. [Interestingly, after writing this article, I found that Calvin had made the same point (see Calvin says: Genesis means what it says). This shows that once again, skeptics just repeat arguments long ago refuted by Bible believing scholars.]



Last edited by elshamah888 on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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How could there be light on the first day of Creation if the sun was not created until the fourth day?

http://www.gotquestions.org/light-first-sun-fourth.html

The question of how there could be light on the first day of Creation when the sun was not created until the fourth day is a common one. Genesis 1:3-5 declares, "And God said, 'Let there be light,' and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light 'day,' and the darkness He called 'night.' And there was evening, and there was morning — the first day." A few verses later we are informed, "And God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.' And it was so. God made two great lights — the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning — the fourth day" (Genesis 1:14-19). How can this be? How could there be light, mornings and evenings on the first, second, and third days if the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the fourth day?

This is only a problem if we fail to take into account an infinite and omnipotent God. God does not need the sun, moon, and stars to provide light. God is light! First John 1:5 declares, "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all." God Himself was the light for the first three days of Creation, just as He will be in the new heavens and new earth, “There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever” (Revelation 22:5). Until He created the sun, moon, and stars, God miraculously provided light during the “day” and may have done so during the “night” as well (Genesis 1:14).

Jesus said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life” (John 8:12). Much more important than the light of day and night is the Light who provides eternal life to all who believe in Him. Those who do not believe in Him will be doomed to “outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12).

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http://www.kjvbible.org/paradox_of_the_sun_and_stars.html

The 4th Day - Paradox of the Sun and Stars

Throughout this website we have sought to provide both Biblical and Scientific answers to the many issues which have evaded reconciliation of Geology and Genesis and the doctrinal conflict between "Old Earth" and "Young Earth" Creationism. Having demonstrated that the Ruin-Reconstruction (Gap Theory) interpretation provides the superior, Biblically credible solution between what the Bible says and the Earth's geology reveals, we must now tackle a final and elusive issue in the reconciliation process: Specifically, the sun and stars of the 4th Day of the Genesis narrative:

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
(Genesis 1:14-19 KJV)

Young Earth Creationists claim that the Sun and Stars were first "created" about 6,000 years ago on the 4th Day of Genesis. This claim runs counter to empirical observations and the Biblical text. In fact, the word "create" is nowhere in the above passage. The word used is "made" and comes from a different Hebrew word with a different meaning. Of course, the YECs will argue that the words are interchangeable, but we will not address that argument on this page.

The scientific fact of the matter is that most of the stars we see up in the sky are old - much older than just 6,000 years. In order to defend their Young Earth Creationist position against this widely accepted fact, Young Earth Creationists have proposed every counter-argument imaginable. These arguments range from changes in the speed of light, to time-dilation, to God deliberately making everything appear old just to trick all the "evil evolutionists" into believing the "lies of science" and receiving damnation for their unbelief. Of course, that latter explanation would also make God a liar and a deceiver, but they never think that one through.

In Gap Theory Old Earth Creationism we postulate that there was a previous world on the ancient Earth long, long before the world of Adam. Of course, such an ancient world had to have a Sun (and stars) shining up in the sky from ancient times. From that interpretive perspective alone the events of Genesis Day 4 cannot possibly be the first time "creation" of the Sun and Stars. The Bible says there were stars and a heaven "of old," (II Peter 3:5-7) so those stars had to exist (and then perish?) before the seven days of Genesis, otherwise why the requirement for the Sun and Stars to be regenerated ("made") on the 4th Day?

When you look up into the sky at any distant star, you are in effect looking backwards into historical time. What you see when you look at a star one million light years away is what that star looked like 1 million years ago. In reality, it may no longer be there. It could have exploded 500,000 years ago and you would not see that from Earth for another 500,000 years from today. Light travels at a velocity of 299,792,458 m/s and the distances between the Earth and the stars is measured in light-years.

So, if by looking up into space you are actually looking back into time, then why can't we see the old heavens that were here long before the seven days of Genesis? Actually, we are seeing them!! We are also seeing light from stars that were regenerated 6,000 years ago. What we are not presently seeing, however, is the light from what I will call 'The Event Horizon' from historical time-past when the old heavens perished into a state of ruin. We do not see the light from that event because that light is yet to reach us here on the Earth. Confused? Let's try and explain this another way.

In several places within this website we presented our evidence that indicates the old Earth and heavens perished (passed into a state of coldness and ruin) about 12,000 radio carbon years ago. This is at a geological marker termed the end of the Pleistocene. We also postulated that when the stars in the heavens went dark and cold, some of the hydrogen of those dying stars produced great quantities of waters across the cosmos. (For a review on events of this timeframe read also Life Forms Just Before End of Ice Age and After Seven Days of Genesis and 12,000 Year Old Human Hair DNA has no Match with Modern Humans for additional info.)

Such a universal event would have produced a spectacular light show in the heavens (stars expanding into Red Giants and imploding into White Dwarfs, etc.) before the darkness and cold settled in. One day soon, we who presently live on the face of the Earth may look up into the night sky and see this very wondrous and terrible PAST event as it appeared 12,000 years ago. To us it will look like it is happening in real-time, but this will not be the case.

The coming great universal light show certainly didn't happen instantaneously, but probably happened at an accelerated rate. There would be signs of this coming event beginning shortly before it happened. We know that it apparently ended about 12,000 years ago. The heavens and Earth evidently were in darkness and ruin for a period of about 6,000 years before they were regenerated about 6,000 years later. Consequently, the light from just before the start of that ancient event is still approaching Earth. It is coming from over 12,000 light years away, and the predicted arrival of that light just so happens to coincide with the generally predicted time of the coming Great Tribulation. Look what the Bible says about those coming days:

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
(Luke 21:25-26 KJV)

As the light from this ancient view of the heavens passes the Earth, the particles of energy from that event wave may also begin to interact with the magnetic fields of the Sun and the Earth, producing other wonders in the sky:

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
(Joel 2:30-31 KJV)

Could the prophet have seen visions of massive red Auroras in the night skies of the Tribulation period? Are you aware of what can happen up in the sky when a strong surge of the solar wind hits the Earth's magnetic field and ionizes the gasses aloft? You get Auroras. And depending on the gasses affected and the strength of the magnetic storm, you can get ones that are blood red.

There are historical accounts of Auroras being visible in the lower latitudes during unusually strong solar storms. Many people who had never seen such things before thought it was the end of the world.

Certainly the passing of this predicted event horizon and the energies of the event wave will fill the sky with terrible sights in both the star field and the Earth's upper atmosphere. Imagine you were viewing the Earth's moon through the light of such an Aurora. Would the moon not appear "blood red" as well?

And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
(Luke 21:11 KJV)

In addition, keep in mind that an event horizon strong enough to affect Earth's magnetic field will also affect the magnetic field of the sun and may precipitate other anomalous activity within the sun and the fundamental forces that govern nature. Almost anything is possible, and some of the events prophesied in the Bible are almost impossible for man to imagine.

In summary, if this basic prediction is accurate, then we have the answer to the paradox of the stars being "made" (not created) on Genesis Day 4. If the old state of the universe (what we see now) went out in a blaze of stellar activity 12,000 years or so ago, then we should be seeing the start of that fossil event sometime soon, just as the Bible says. In any event, it should be quite a light show when it gets here. If you understand this, you won't be one of those "perplexed" at the sight.

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