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1 Richard Dawkins on Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:24 am

Richard Dawkins

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=richard+dawkins&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10

http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawkinsdotnet

http://richarddawkins.net/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

Clinton Richard Dawkins, FRS, FRSL (born 26 March 1941) is a British ethologist, evolutionary biologist and popular science author. He was formerly Professor for Public Understanding of Science at Oxford and was a fellow of New College, Oxford.[1][2][3][4]
Dawkins came to prominence with his 1976 book The Selfish Gene, which popularised the gene-centred view of evolution and introduced the term meme. In 1982, he made a widely cited contribution to evolutionary biology with the concept, presented in his book The Extended Phenotype, that the phenotypic effects of a gene are not necessarily limited to an organism's body, but can stretch far into the environment, including the bodies of other organisms.
Dawkins is a prominent critic of creationism and intelligent design. In his 1986 book The Blind Watchmaker, he argued against the watchmaker analogy, an argument for the existence of a supernatural creator based upon the complexity of living organisms. Instead, he described evolutionary processes as analogous to a blind watchmaker. He has since written several popular science books, and makes regular television and radio appearances, predominantly discussing these topics.
Dawkins is an atheist,[5][6][7] secular humanist, sceptic, scientific rationalist,[8] and supporter of the Brights movement.[9] He has widely been referred to in the media as "Darwin's Rottweiler",[10][11] by analogy with English biologist T. H. Huxley, who was known as "Darwin's Bulldog" for his advocacy of Charles Darwin's evolutionary ideas. In his 2006 book The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that faith qualifies as a delusion − as a fixed false belief.[12] As of November 2007, the English language version had sold more than 1.5 million copies and had been translated into 31 other languages,[13] making it his most popular book to date.


http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldOfDawkins-archive/index.shtml

http://books.google.com/books?as_auth=Richard+Dawkins&source=an&ei=N4R_SpXzOZGxtgf2l7j-AQ&sa=X&oi=book_group&ct=title&cad=author-navigational&resnum=9

RICHARD DAWKINS: CRITICISMS AND REBUTTALS

http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/dawkins_rebuttals.htm



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2 Re: Richard Dawkins on Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:55 pm

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=richard+dawkins&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=N4R_SpXzOZGxtgf2l7j-AQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4#

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=richard+dawkins&search_type=&aq=f

UC Berkeley Event - Richard Dawkins



CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins (Full - Highest Quality)




Richard Dawkins -- The God Delusion




Bill O'Reilly SCARED by Richard Dawkins




Famous Creationist Quote Mining - Richard Dawkins @ American Atheist Conference (1)




Waking Up in the Universe - Growing Up in the Universe - Richard Dawkins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHoxZF3ZgTo&feature=related




Richard Dawkins on the Big Debate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-S7M0KZTsU&feature=related




Richard Dawkins on the Evolution of the Eye || Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUOpaFVgKPw&feature=related




Dawkins Makes an Eye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEKyqIJkuDQ&feature=related



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3 Answers to Richard Dawkins on Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:40 pm

http://www.atheistdelusion.net/

Fine-Tuning: Evidence For God's Existence? - Richard Dawkins @ American Atheist Conference

http://www.youtube.com/v/mlD-CJPGt1A



Dawkins rejection of the explanation " God finetuned the universe " is utmost ridiculous,telling that Got can be discarded, " because it leaves unexplained the tuner ". The same argument, he uses in the God delusion book.....then he continues saying, " Mr. Weinberg stated that we don't know still enough about physics is ridiculous as well, since we know exactly the fine-tuning constants, and the improbability, the universe could have arisen by chance. The multiverse theory can be discarded as well, since we do not have any evidence at all. That's pure guessing. BTW. Also the BigBang needed to expand by exact constants, that means there would have been needed trillions x trillions of BigBang explosion tryings, up until one actually would have permitted a universe to form. And from that, another trillions x trillions of universes, until eventually one would create the possibility of life to arise. And that still does not explain, who or what actually did put that process in motion... in the end, i think Dawkins tells it right - what he proposed, isn't match more, than science fiction speculation.So that is the explanation of one of the most prominent atheism propagators. I honestly doubt myself, if Dawkins is honest with himself about such a unreasonable explanation.



william craig answers to dawkins :

http://www.youtube.com/v/xlzKITZ9ct8



http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5493

http://santitafarella.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/is-god-the-ultimate-747-richard-dawkins-v-william-lane-craig/

If archaeologists digging in the earth were to discover things looking like arrowheads and hatchet heads and pottery shards, they would be justified in inferring that these artifacts are not the chance result of sedimentation and metamorphosis, but products of some unknown group of people, even though they had no explanation of who these people were or where they came from. Similarly, if astronauts were to come upon a pile of machinery on the back side of the moon, they would be justified in inferring that it was the product of intelligent, extra-terrestrial agents, even if they had no idea whatsoever who these extra-terrestrial agents were or how they got there. In order to recognize an explanation as the best, one needn’t be able to explain the explanation. In fact, so requiring would lead to an infinite regress of explanations, so that nothing could ever be explained and science would be destroyed. So in the case at hand, in order to recognize that intelligent design is the best explanation of the appearance of design in the universe, one needn’t be able to explain the designer.

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4 Re: Richard Dawkins on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:22 pm

The Hour: Interview with Richard Dawkins

The Hour's George Stroumboulopoulos interviews Richard Dawkins - author of "The God Delusion".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNHo00gjHRk&feature=fvw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFChwyJEc4g&feature=related



Jonathan Miller & Richard Dawkins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1bo_rNpJAc&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQpLA4Il0mE&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X2--dDCcoU&feature=related

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5 Re: Richard Dawkins on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:24 pm

Richard Dawkins on the origins of life

Richard Dawkins at the Edinburgh International Book Festival on Monday, August 11, 2008.

The interview was conducted by Paula Kirby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa55s9Gs_Eg&feature=related

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6 Re: Richard Dawkins on Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:47 am

Richard Dawkins & 'The God Delusion'
Flaws in his argument


http://www.seekingtruth.org.uk/dawkins.htm

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7 Re: Richard Dawkins on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:15 am

Richard Dawkins on Antony Flew

"There maybe good reason to believe in God" if there are any then lets look towards where Christ Dawkins reasoning lies. Because "His" reasoning is all there is,and the faith called Atheism is the right path of understanding this Eternal Force that isn't there.

http://www.deism.com/
http://youtubedeistreality.blogspot.com/

You can't learn about something by denying its existence. If the word god is the only thing keeping you from the reality of Deism then I ask you to think about this word god. God is an honorary title that we give this Eternal Force that must exist because we are all here to prove it. "We", being part of the Creation our living proof that this Eternal Force is real. We being part of the Creation can learn from one another about some key truths that pertain to God.

So this Eternal Source of all things is a fact of life. This Force provides all with the basic essentials of sustaining ones life. Life that would not be possible and could not continue without the loving hand that this Force provides to all its creations. We are the product of this Force/Energy and at the very least we can recognize,and honor "IT" with the honorary title of God.

If you truly feel that this Force isn't worthy of an honorary title then at the very least can you recognize why others can,and do? God is an undeniable fact of life,and again the proof of that statement is our very existence. That being said if God is so true then our path of understanding should be as evident as God is evident. This is Deism "where the true word of God is the creation that we behold" T.P.

The true Deist as Thomas Paine calls us,or the pure Deist as Benjamin Franklin calls us can't tell you who,or what God is we can only tell you that S/He/? is,and enlighten those in the proper path of understanding. We can't tell you to believe the undeniable proof that the pure Deist provides as evidence on the matter. When you deny God your denying your own existence because you really are the found watch that comes from an unknown source.

If you believe that this Eternal Force is real,and you understand that the best way of understanding this Source of all things is to go to the things that ITs made (or,other products of this Force) then you are not an Atheist. You are a pure Deist who recognizes truth,and uses reason as your guide.

The potential of Deism saving our race is real. If Deism is a fact of life then Atheism is a provable faults faith. You can talk about celestial teapots,and pink unicorns all day long,but our God given gift of reason knows better. We know that teapots are made from man,and we know too that pink unicorns come from our imagination as well.

The God that the true Deist is talking about is the God of Nature,the God of the Creation,the God of the founding fathers of this great nation,the God that is. The pure Deist knows that the words faith and theory go hand and hand. We know that our individual faiths are only as important to others as the truths that they unfold.

We the pure Deist are our own prophets,who receive our own personal revelations from the physical manifestations that are found in the Creation which is our sacred text from this Eternal Force that we honer again with the title of God. These personal manifestation are presented to all five senses,to our intuition,and our imagination every moment of our lives. God is a living presents in all of our lives know it,or not. Recognize it,deny it doesn't matter because you just can't help what is. Every true Deist is a Theist just like our founding fathers were whether they know it,or not.

You Richard Dawkins are no different then Noah Webster,Rick Warren,and all of their cohorts. Your all Atheists who either spread faults lies about our Maker,or spread your God delusion funk. If its just the word god you can't handle get over it,and join the true side of reason. Any movement without this Eternal Force "God" is destine to fail.

Antony Flew believed in this Eternal Force.
He believed in the Creation,
and he knew that the best way of ascertaining any truth on the matter was through the scientific method.
Why is that "sad" for you?
Why do you say the "surviving powers that Antony Flew ONCE had as an intellectual"?
By leaving your faith Mr. Flew is no longer an intellect?
Are we all intellectuals if we think like you.
You act like Mr. Flew was converted to Christianity.
He wasn't, his mind went from faith to reality,and your mad because he left your loving faith.

Your just like all the rest,and your fog of faith is just as thick!

You and all of your cohorts from Rick Warren on down are all ATHEISTS,and the world will remember you as such.

I trust,and yes pray that you use that faith of yours as just a steppingstone towards the reality of Deism.
Do it today so that we can start healing this world one pure Deist at a time


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh8SnSVS0-M&feature=related

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8 Re: Richard Dawkins on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:24 am

Dawkins confronts Ted Haggard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibl2A3Ai7o&feature=related



Richard Dawkins admits to Intelligent Design

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoncJBrrdQ8&feature=related



British TV - Richard Dawkins Interview

Clever interview from Richard Dawkins answering email questions from religious viewers responding to "The God Delusion".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8-VxIp9G2E&feature=related

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9 Re: Richard Dawkins on Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:05 pm

Richard Dawkins on Have Your Say

Richard Dawkins answers a slew of questions about religion, science, and other topics on Have Your Say. (BBC, originally broadcasted on September 12, 2007)

Remember to rate, favorite, and/or comment on videos you consider to be morally, intellectually, and/or aesthetically enlightening. By doing so, you help to perpetuate the ideas to which you believe others should be exposed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUGTAFKQLgw&feature=related



We are Rational Human Beings

Religion is something known to us through inner experience...

This is the third of a serie of six video responses.

I'm trying to make a point. Watch my videos.

Sources:

Christopher Hitchens in Authors@Google series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0B-X...

Richard Dawkins answer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskX...

Richard Dawkins on Bill O'Reilly Show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wECRvN...

The Trouble with Atheism Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZKVtt...

music: Lord Don't Slow Me Down by Oasis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyjiDH6P_wo&feature=related



Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paul Davies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HzRKsgQjZ8&feature=related

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10 Re: Richard Dawkins on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:03 pm

"What do you think of Richard Dawkins' argument for atheism in The God Delusion?"

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5493

Dr. Craig responds:

On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:

1. One of the greatest challenges to the human intellect has been to explain how the complex, improbable appearance of design in the universe arises.

2. The natural temptation is to attribute the appearance of design to actual design itself.

3. The temptation is a false one because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer.

4. The most ingenious and powerful explanation is Darwinian evolution by natural selection.

5. We don't have an equivalent explanation for physics.

6. We should not give up the hope of a better explanation arising in physics, something as powerful as Darwinism is for biology.

Therefore, God almost certainly does not exist.

This argument is jarring because the atheistic conclusion that "Therefore, God almost certainly does not exist" seems to come suddenly out of left field. You don't need to be a philosopher to realize that that conclusion doesn't follow from the six previous statements.

Indeed, if we take these six statements as premises of an argument implying the conclusion "Therefore, God almost certainly does not exist," then the argument is patently invalid. No logical rules of inference would permit you to draw this conclusion from the six premises.

A more charitable interpretation would be to take these six statements, not as premises, but as summary statements of six steps in Dawkins' cumulative argument for his conclusion that God does not exist. But even on this charitable construal, the conclusion "Therefore, God almost certainly does not exist" does not follow from these six steps, even if we concede that each of them is true and justified.

What does follow from the six steps of Dawkins' argument? At most, all that follows is that we should not infer God's existence on the basis of the appearance of design in the universe. But that conclusion is quite compatible with God's existence and even with our justifiably believing in God's existence. Maybe we should believe in God on the basis of the cosmological argument or the ontological argument or the moral argument. Maybe our belief in God isn't based on arguments at all but is grounded in religious experience or in divine revelation. Maybe God wants us to believe in Him simply by faith. The point is that rejecting design arguments for God's existence does nothing to prove that God does not exist or even that belief in God is unjustified. Indeed, many Christian theologians have rejected arguments for the existence of God without thereby committing themselves to atheism.

So Dawkins' argument for atheism is a failure even if we concede, for the sake of argument, all its steps. But, in fact, several of these steps are plausibly false. Take just step (3), for example. Dawkins' claim here is that one is not justified in inferring design as the best explanation of the complex order of the universe because then a new problem arises: who designed the designer?

This rejoinder is flawed on at least two counts. First, in order to recognize an explanation as the best, one needn't have an explanation of the explanation. This is an elementary point concerning inference to the best explanation as practiced in the philosophy of science. If archaeologists digging in the earth were to discover things looking like arrowheads and hatchet heads and pottery shards, they would be justified in inferring that these artifacts are not the chance result of sedimentation and metamorphosis, but products of some unknown group of people, even though they had no explanation of who these people were or where they came from. Similarly, if astronauts were to come upon a pile of machinery on the back side of the moon, they would be justified in inferring that it was the product of intelligent, extra-terrestrial agents, even if they had no idea whatsoever who these extra-terrestrial agents were or how they got there. In order to recognize an explanation as the best, one needn't be able to explain the explanation. In fact, so requiring would lead to an infinite regress of explanations, so that nothing could ever be explained and science would be destroyed. So in the case at hand, in order to recognize that intelligent design is the best explanation of the appearance of design in the universe, one needn't be able to explain the designer.

Secondly, Dawkins thinks that in the case of a divine designer of the universe, the designer is just as complex as the thing to be explained, so that no explanatory advance is made. This objection raises all sorts of questions about the role played by simplicity in assessing competing explanations; for example, how simplicity is to be weighted in comparison with other criteria like explanatory power, explanatory scope, and so forth. But leave those questions aside. Dawkins' fundamental mistake lies in his assumption that a divine designer is an entity comparable in complexity to the universe. As an unembodied mind, God is a remarkably simple entity. As a non-physical entity, a mind is not composed of parts, and its salient properties, like self-consciousness, rationality, and volition, are essential to it. In contrast to the contingent and variegated universe with all its inexplicable quantities and constants, a divine mind is startlingly simple. Certainly such a mind may have complex ideas—it may be thinking, for example, of the infinitesimal calculus—, but the mind itself is a remarkably simple entity. Dawkins has evidently confused a mind's ideas, which may, indeed, be complex, with a mind itself, which is an incredibly simple entity. Therefore, postulating a divine mind behind the universe most definitely does represent an advance in simplicity, for whatever that is worth.

Other steps in Dawkins' argument are also problematic; but I think enough has been said to show that his argument does nothing to undermine a design inference based on the universe's complexity, not to speak of its serving as a justification of atheism.

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11 Re: Richard Dawkins on Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:11 am

Bill O'Reilly vs. 'Atheist' Richard Dawkins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECE77Imki9M&feature=player_embedded

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12 Re: Richard Dawkins on Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:03 pm

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13 Re: Richard Dawkins on Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:51 pm

http://www.skeptics.com.au/publications/articles/the-information-challenge/

The Information Challenge

By Richard Dawkins

In September 1997, I allowed an Australian film crew into my house in Oxford without realising that their purpose was creationist propaganda. In the course of a suspiciously amateurish interview, they issued a truculent challenge to me to “give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information in the genome.” It is the kind of question only a creationist would ask in that way, and it was at this point I tumbled to the fact that I had been duped into granting an interview to creationists — a thing I normally don’t do, for good reasons. In my anger I refused to discuss the question further, and told them to stop the camera. However, I eventually withdrew my peremptory termination of the interview as a whole. This was solely because they pleaded with me that they had come all the way from Australia specifically in order to interview me. Even if this was a considerable exaggeration, it seemed, on reflection, ungenerous to tear up the legal release form and throw them out. I therefore relented.

My generosity was rewarded in a fashion that anyone familiar with fundamentalist tactics might have predicted. When I eventually saw the film a year later 1, I found that it had been edited to give the false impression that I was incapable of answering the question about information content 2. In fairness, this may not have been quite as intentionally deceitful as it sounds. You have to understand that these people really believe that their question cannot be answered! Pathetic as it sounds, their entire journey from Australia seems to have been a quest to film an evolutionist failing to answer it.

With hindsight — given that I had been suckered into admitting them into my house in the first place — it might have been wiser simply to answer the question. But I like to be understood whenever I open my mouth — I have a horror of blinding people with science — and this was not a question that could be answered in a soundbite. First you first have to explain the technical meaning of “information”. Then the relevance to evolution, too, is complicated — not really difficult but it takes time. Rather than engage now in further recriminations and disputes about exactly what happened at the time of the interview (for, to be fair, I should say that the Australian producer’s memory of events seems to differ from mine), I shall try to redress the matter now in constructive fashion by answering the original question, the “Information Challenge”, at adequate length — the sort of length you can achieve in a proper article.

Information

The technical definition of “information” was introduced by the American engineer Claude Shannon in 1948. An employee of the Bell Telephone Company, Shannon was concerned to measure information as an economic commodity. It is costly to send messages along a telephone line. Much of what passes in a message is not information: it is redundant. You could save money by recoding the message to remove the redundancy. Redundancy was a second technical term introduced by Shannon, as the inverse of information. Both definitions were mathematical, but we can convey Shannon’s intuitive meaning in words.

Redundancy is any part of a message that is not informative, either because the recipient already knows it (is not surprised by it) or because it duplicates other parts of the message. In the sentence “Rover is a poodle dog”, the word “dog” is redundant because “poodle” already tells us that Rover is a dog. An economical telegram would omit it, thereby increasing the informative proportion of the message. “Arr JFK Fri pm pls mt BA Cncrd flt” carries the same information as the much longer, but more redundant, “I’ll be arriving at John F Kennedy airport on Friday evening; please meet the British Airways Concorde flight”. Obviously the brief, telegraphic message is cheaper to send (although the recipient may have to work harder to decipher it — redundancy has its virtues if we forget economics). Shannon wanted to find a mathematical way to capture the idea that any message could be broken into the information (which is worth paying for), the redundancy (which can, with economic advantage, be deleted from the message because, in effect, it can be reconstructed by the recipient) and the noise (which is just random rubbish).

“It rained in Oxford every day this week” carries relatively little information, because the receiver is not surprised by it. On the other hand, “It rained in the Sahara desert every day this week” would be a message with high information content, well worth paying extra to send. Shannon wanted to capture this sense of information content as “surprise value”. It is related to the other sense — “that which is not duplicated in other parts of the message” — because repetitions lose their power to surprise. Note that Shannon’s definition of the quantity of information is independent of whether it is true. The measure he came up with was ingenious and intuitively satisfying. Let’s estimate, he suggested, the receiver’s ignorance or uncertainty before receiving the message, and then compare it with the receiver’s remaining ignorance after receiving the message. The quantity of ignorance-reduction is the information content. Shannon’s unit of information is the bit, short for “binary digit”. One bit is defined as the amount of information needed to halve the receiver’s prior uncertainty, however great that prior uncertainty was (mathematical readers will notice that the bit is, therefore, a logarithmic measure).

In practice, you first have to find a way of measuring the prior uncertainty — that which is reduced by the information when it comes. For particular kinds of simple message, this is easily done in terms of probabilities. An expectant father watches the Caesarian birth of his child through a window into the operating theatre. He can’t see any details, so a nurse has agreed to hold up a pink card if it is a girl, blue for a boy. How much information is conveyed when, say, the nurse flourishes the pink card to the delighted father? The answer is one bit — the prior uncertainty is halved. The father knows that a baby of some kind has been born, so his uncertainty amounts to just two possibilities — boy and girl — and they are (for purposes of this discussion) equal. The pink card halves the father’s prior uncertainty from two possibilities to one (girl). If there’d been no pink card but a doctor had walked out of the operating theatre, shook the father’s hand and said “Congratulations old chap, I’m delighted to be the first to tell you that you have a daughter”, the information conveyed by the 17 word message would still be only one bit.

Computer information
Computer information is held in a sequence of noughts and ones. There are only two possibilities, so each 0 or 1 can hold one bit. The memory capacity of a computer, or the storage capacity of a disc or tape, is often measured in bits, and this is the total number of 0s or 1s that it can hold. For some purposes, more convenient units of measurement are the byte (8 bits), the kilobyte (1000 bytes or 8000 bits), the megabyte (a million bytes or 8 million bits) or the gigabyte (1000 million bytes or 8000 million bits). Notice that these figures refer to the total available capacity. This is the maximum quantity of information that the device is capable of storing. The actual amount of information stored is something else. The capacity of my hard disc happens to be 4.2 gigabytes. Of this, about 1.4 gigabytes are actually being used to store data at present. But even this is not the true information content of the disc in Shannon’s sense. The true information content is smaller, because the information could be more economically stored. You can get some idea of the true information content by using one of those ingenious compression programs like “Stuffit”. Stuffit looks for redundancy in the sequence of 0s and 1s, and removes a hefty proportion of it by recoding — stripping out internal predictability. Maximum information content would be achieved (probably never in practice) only if every 1 or 0 surprised us equally. Before data is transmitted in bulk around the Internet, it is routinely compressed to reduce redundancy.

That’s good economics. But on the other hand it is also a good idea to keep some redundancy in messages, to help correct errors. In a message that is totally free of redundancy, after there’s been an error there is no means of reconstructing what was intended. Computer codes often incorporate deliberately redundant “parity bits” to aid in error detection. DNA, too, has various error-correcting procedures which depend upon redundancy. When I come on to talk of genomes, I’ll return to the three-way distinction between total information capacity, information capacity actually used, and true information content.

It was Shannon’s insight that information of any kind, no matter what it means, no matter whether it is true or false, and no matter by what physical medium it is carried, can be measured in bits, and is translatable into any other medium of information. The great biologist J B S Haldane used Shannon’s theory to compute the number of bits of information conveyed by a worker bee to her hivemates when she “dances” the location of a food source (about 3 bits to tell about the direction of the food and another 3 bits for the distance of the food). In the same units, I recently calculated that I’d need to set aside 120 megabits of laptop computer memory to store the triumphal opening chords of Richard Strauss’s “Also Sprach Zarathustra” (the “2001” theme) which I wanted to play in the middle of a lecture about evolution. Shannon’s economics enable you to calculate how much modem time it’ll cost you to e-mail the complete text of a book to a publisher in another land. Fifty years after Shannon, the idea of information as a commodity, as measurable and interconvertible as money or energy, has come into its own.

DNA information
DNA carries information in a very computer-like way, and we can measure the genome’s capacity in bits too, if we wish. DNA doesn’t use a binary code, but a quaternary one. Whereas the unit of information in the computer is a 1 or a 0, the unit in DNA can be T, A, C or G. If I tell you that a particular location in a DNA sequence is a T, how much information is conveyed from me to you? Begin by measuring the prior uncertainty. How many possibilities are open before the message “T” arrives? Four. How many possibilities remain after it has arrived? One. So you might think the information transferred is four bits, but actually it is two. Here’s why (assuming that the four letters are equally probable, like the four suits in a pack of cards). Remember that Shannon’s metric is concerned with the most economical way of conveying the message. Think of it as the number of yes/no questions that you’d have to ask in order to narrow down to certainty, from an initial uncertainty of four possibilities, assuming that you planned your questions in the most economical way. “Is the mystery letter before D in the alphabet?” No. That narrows it down to T or G, and now we need only one more question to clinch it. So, by this method of measuring, each “letter” of the DNA has an information capacity of 2 bits.

Whenever prior uncertainty of recipient can be expressed as a number of equiprobable alternatives N, the information content of a message which narrows those alternatives down to one is log2N (the power to which 2 must be raised in order to yield the number of alternatives N). If you pick a card, any card, from a normal pack, a statement of the identity of the card carries log252, or 5.7 bits of information. In other words, given a large number of guessing games, it would take 5.7 yes/no questions on average to guess the card, provided the questions are asked in the most economical way. The first two questions might establish the suit. (Is it red? Is it a diamond?) the remaining three or four questions would successively divide and conquer the suit (is it a 7 or higher? etc.), finally homing in on the chosen card. When the prior uncertainty is some mixture of alternatives that are not equiprobable, Shannon’s formula becomes a slightly more elaborate weighted average, but it is essentially similar. By the way, Shannon’s weighted average is the same formula as physicists have used, since the nineteenth century, for entropy. The point has interesting implications but I shall not pursue them here.

Information and evolution
That’s enough background on information theory. It is a theory which has long held a fascination for me, and I have used it in several of my research papers over the years. Let’s now think how we might use it to ask whether the information content of genomes increases in evolution. First, recall the three way distinction between total information capacity, the capacity that is actually used, and the true information content when stored in the most economical way possible. The total information capacity of the human genome is measured in gigabits. That of the common gut bacterium Escherichia coli is measured in megabits. We, like all other animals, are descended from an ancestor which, were it available for our study today, we’d classify as a bacterium. So perhaps, during the billions of years of evolution since that ancestor lived, the information capacity of our genome has gone up about three orders of magnitude (powers of ten) — about a thousandfold. This is satisfyingly plausible and comforting to human dignity. Should human dignity feel wounded, then, by the fact that the crested newt, Triturus cristatus, has a genome capacity estimated at 40 gigabits, an order of magnitude larger than the human genome? No, because, in any case, most of the capacity of the genome of any animal is not used to store useful information. There are many nonfunctional pseudogenes (see below) and lots of repetitive nonsense, useful for forensic detectives but not translated into protein in the living cells. The crested newt has a bigger “hard disc” than we have, but since the great bulk of both our hard discs is unused, we needn’t feel insulted. Related species of newt have much smaller genomes. Why the Creator should have played fast and loose with the genome sizes of newts in such a capricious way is a problem that creationists might like to ponder. From an evolutionary point of view the explanation is simple (see The Selfish Gene pp 44 – 45 and p 275 in the Second Edition).

Gene duplication
Evidently the total information capacity of genomes is very variable across the living kingdoms, and it must have changed greatly in evolution, presumably in both directions. Losses of genetic material are called deletions. New genes arise through various kinds of duplication. This is well illustrated by haemoglobin, the complex protein molecule that transports oxygen in the blood.

Human adult haemoglobin is actually a composite of four protein chains called globins, knotted around each other. Their detailed sequences show that the four globin chains are closely related to each other, but they are not identical. Two of them are called alpha globins (each a chain of 141 amino acids), and two are beta globins (each a chain of 146 amino acids). The genes coding for the alpha globins are on chromosome 11; those coding for the beta globins are on chromosome 16. On each of these chromosomes, there is a cluster of globin genes in a row, interspersed with some junk DNA. The alpha cluster, on Chromosome 11, contains seven globin genes. Four of these are pseudogenes, versions of alpha disabled by faults in their sequence and not translated into proteins. Two are true alpha globins, used in the adult. The final one is called zeta and is used only in embryos. Similarly the beta cluster, on chromosome 16, has six genes, some of which are disabled, and one of which is used only in the embryo. Adult haemoglobin, as we’ve seen contains two alpha and two beta chains.

Never mind all this complexity. Here’s the fascinating point. Careful letter-by-letter analysis shows that these different kinds of globin genes are literally cousins of each other, literally members of a family. But these distant cousins still coexist inside our own genome, and that of all vertebrates. On a the scale of whole organism, the vertebrates are our cousins too. The tree of vertebrate evolution is the family tree we are all familiar with, its branch-points representing speciation events — the splitting of species into pairs of daughter species. But there is another family tree occupying the same timescale, whose branches represent not speciation events but gene duplication events within genomes.

The dozen or so different globins inside you are descended from an ancient globin gene which, in a remote ancestor who lived about half a billion years ago, duplicated, after which both copies stayed in the genome. There were then two copies of it, in different parts of the genome of all descendant animals. One copy was destined to give rise to the alpha cluster (on what would eventually become Chromosome 11 in our genome), the other to the beta cluster (on Chromosome 16). As the aeons passed, there were further duplications (and doubtless some deletions as well). Around 400 million years ago the ancestral alpha gene duplicated again, but this time the two copies remained near neighbours of each other, in a cluster on the same chromosome. One of them was destined to become the zeta of our embryos, the other became the alpha globin genes of adult humans (other branches gave rise to the nonfunctional pseudogenes I mentioned). It was a similar story along the beta branch of the family, but with duplications at other moments in geological history.

Now here’s an equally fascinating point. Given that the split between the alpha cluster and the beta cluster took place 500 million years ago, it will of course not be just our human genomes that show the split — possess alpha genes in a different part of the genome from beta genes. We should see the same within-genome split if we look at any other mammals, at birds, reptiles, amphibians and bony fish, for our common ancestor with all of them lived less than 500 million years ago. Wherever it has been investigated, this expectation has proved correct. Our greatest hope of finding a vertebrate that does not share with us the ancient alpha/beta split would be a jawless fish like a lamprey, for they are our most remote cousins among surviving vertebrates; they are the only surviving vertebrates whose common ancestor with the rest of the vertebrates is sufficiently ancient that it could have predated the alpha/beta split. Sure enough, these jawless fishes are the only known vertebrates that lack the alpha/beta divide.

Gene duplication, within the genome, has a similar historic impact to species duplication (“speciation”) in phylogeny. It is responsible for gene diversity, in the same way as speciation is responsible for phyletic diversity. Beginning with a single universal ancestor, the magnificent diversity of life has come about through a series of branchings of new species, which eventually gave rise to the major branches of the living kingdoms and the hundreds of millions of separate species that have graced the earth. A similar series of branchings, but this time within genomes — gene duplications — has spawned the large and diverse population of clusters of genes that constitutes the modern genome.

The story of the globins is just one among many. Gene duplications and deletions have occurred from time to time throughout genomes. It is by these, and similar means, that genome sizes can increase in evolution. But remember the distinction between the total capacity of the whole genome, and the capacity of the portion that is actually used. Recall that not all the globin genes are actually used. Some of them, like theta in the alpha cluster of globin genes, are pseudogenes, recognizably kin to functional genes in the same genomes, but never actually translated into the action language of protein. What is true of globins is true of most other genes. Genomes are littered with nonfunctional pseudogenes, faulty duplicates of functional genes that do nothing, while their functional cousins (the word doesn’t even need scare quotes) get on with their business in a different part of the same genome. And there’s lots more DNA that doesn’t even deserve the name pseudogene. It, too, is derived by duplication, but not duplication of functional genes. It consists of multiple copies of junk, “tandem repeats”, and other nonsense which may be useful for forensic detectives but which doesn’t seem to be used in the body itself.

Once again, creationists might spend some earnest time speculating on why the Creator should bother to litter genomes with untranslated pseudogenes and junk tandem repeat DNA.

Information in the genome
Can we measure the information capacity of that portion of the genome which is actually used? We can at least estimate it. In the case of the human genome it is about 2% — considerably less than the proportion of my hard disc that I have ever used since I bought it. Presumably the equivalent figure for the crested newt is even smaller, but I don’t know if it has been measured. In any case, we mustn’t run away with a chaunvinistic idea that the human genome somehow ought to have the largest DNA database because we are so wonderful. The great evolutionary biologist George C Williams has pointed out that animals with complicated life cycles need to code for the development of all stages in the life cycle, but they only have one genome with which to do so. A butterfly’s genome has to hold the complete information needed for building a caterpillar as well as a butterfly. A sheep liver fluke has six distinct stages in its life cycle, each specialised for a different way of life. We shouldn’t feel too insulted if liver flukes turned out to have bigger genomes than we have (actually they don’t).

Remember, too, that even the total capacity of genome that is actually used is still not the same thing as the true information content in Shannon’s sense. The true information content is what’s left when the redundancy has been compressed out of the message, by the theoretical equivalent of Stuffit. There are even some viruses which seem to use a kind of Stuffit-like compression. They make use of the fact that the RNA (not DNA in these viruses, as it happens, but the principle is the same) code is read in triplets. There is a “frame” which moves along the RNA sequence, reading off three letters at a time. Obviously, under normal conditions, if the frame starts reading in the wrong place (as in a so-called frame-shift mutation), it makes total nonsense: the “triplets” that it reads are out of step with the meaningful ones. But these splendid viruses actually exploit frame-shifted reading. They get two messages for the price of one, by having a completely different message embedded in the very same series of letters when read frame-shifted. In principle you could even get three messages for the price of one, but I don’t know whether there are any examples.

Information in the body
It is one thing to estimate the total information capacity of a genome, and the amount of the genome that is actually used, but it’s harder to estimate its true information content in the Shannon sense. The best we can do is probably to forget about the genome itself and look at its product, the “phenotype”, the working body of the animal or plant itself. In 1951, J W S Pringle, who later became my Professor at Oxford, suggested using a Shannon-type information measure to estimate “complexity”. Pringle wanted to express complexity mathematically in bits, but I have long found the following verbal form helpful in explaining his idea to students.

We have an intuitive sense that a lobster, say, is more complex (more “advanced”, some might even say more “highly evolved”) than another animal, perhaps a millipede. Can we measure something in order to confirm or deny our intuition? Without literally turning it into bits, we can make an approximate estimation of the information contents of the two bodies as follows. Imagine writing a book describing the lobster. Now write another book describing the millipede down to the same level of detail. Divide the word-count in one book by the word-count in the other, and you have an approximate estimate of the relative information content of lobster and millipede. It is important to specify that both books describe their respective animals “down to the same level of detail”. Obviously if we describe the millipede down to cellular detail, but stick to gross anatomical features in the case of the lobster, the millipede would come out ahead.

But if we do the test fairly, I’ll bet the lobster book would come out longer than the millipede book. It’s a simple plausibility argument, as follows. Both animals are made up of segments — modules of bodily architecture that are fundamentally similar to each other, arranged fore-and-aft like the trucks of a train. The millipede’s segments are mostly identical to each other. The lobster’s segments, though following the same basic plan (each with a nervous ganglion, a pair of appendages, and so on) are mostly different from each other. The millipede book would consist of one chapter describing a typical segment, followed by the phrase “Repeat N times” where N is the number of segments. The lobster book would need a different chapter for each segment. This isn’t quite fair on the millipede, whose front and rear end segments are a bit different from the rest. But I’d still bet that, if anyone bothered to do the experiment, the estimate of lobster information content would come out substantially greater than the estimate of millipede information content.

It’s not of direct evolutionary interest to compare a lobster with a millipede in this way, because nobody thinks lobsters evolved from millipedes. Obviously no modern animal evolved from any other modern animal. Instead, any pair of modern animals had a last common ancestor which lived at some (in principle) discoverable moment in geological history. Almost all of evolution happened way back in the past, which makes it hard to study details. But we can use the “length of book” thought-experiment to agree upon what it would mean to ask the question whether information content increases over evolution, if only we had ancestral animals to look at.

The answer in practice is complicated and controversial, all bound up with a vigorous debate over whether evolution is, in general, progressive. I am one of those associated with a limited form of yes answer. My colleague Stephen Jay Gould tends towards a no answer. I don’t think anybody would deny that, by any method of measuring — whether bodily information content, total information capacity of genome, capacity of genome actually used, or true (“Stuffit compressed”) information content of genome — there has been a broad overall trend towards increased information content during the course of human evolution from our remote bacterial ancestors. People might disagree, however, over two important questions: first, whether such a trend is to be found in all, or a majority of evolutionary lineages (for example parasite evolution often shows a trend towards decreasing bodily complexity, because parasites are better off being simple); second, whether, even in lineages where there is a clear overall trend over the very long term, it is bucked by so many reversals and re-reversals in the shorter term as to undermine the very idea of progress. This is not the place to resolve this interesting controversy. There are distinguished biologists with good arguments on both sides.

Supporters of “intelligent design” guiding evolution, by the way, should be deeply committed to the view that information content increases during evolution. Even if the information comes from God, perhaps especially if it does, it should surely increase, and the increase should presumably show itself in the genome. Unless, of course — for anything goes in such addle-brained theorising — God works his evolutionary miracles by nongenetic means.

Perhaps the main lesson we should learn from Pringle is that the information content of a biological system is another name for its complexity. Therefore the creationist challenge with which we began is tantamount to the standard challenge to explain how biological complexity can evolve from simpler antecedents, one that I have devoted three books to answering (The Blind Watchmaker, River Out of Eden, Climbing Mount Improbable) and I do not propose to repeat their contents here. The “information challenge” turns out to be none other than our old friend: “How could something as complex as an eye evolve?” It is just dressed up in fancy mathematical language — perhaps in an attempt to bamboozle. Or perhaps those who ask it have already bamboozled themselves, and don’t realise that it is the same old — and thoroughly answered — question.

The Genetic Book of the Dead
Let me turn, finally, to another way of looking at whether the information content of genomes increases in evolution. We now switch from the broad sweep of evolutionary history to the minutiae of natural selection. Natural selection itself, when you think about it, is a narrowing down from a wide initial field of possible alternatives, to the narrower field of the alternatives actually chosen. Random genetic error (mutation), sexual recombination and migratory mixing, all provide a wide field of genetic variation: the available alternatives. Mutation is not an increase in true information content, rather the reverse, for mutation, in the Shannon analogy, contributes to increasing the prior uncertainty. But now we come to natural selection, which reduces the “prior uncertainty” and therefore, in Shannon’s sense, contributes information to the gene pool. In every generation, natural selection removes the less successful genes from the gene pool, so the remaining gene pool is a narrower subset. The narrowing is nonrandom, in the direction of improvement, where improvement is defined, in the Darwinian way, as improvement in fitness to survive and reproduce. Of course the total range of variation is topped up again in every generation by new mutation and other kinds of variation. But it still remains true that natural selection is a narrowing down from an initially wider field of possibilities, including mostly unsuccessful ones, to a narrower field of successful ones. This is analogous to the definition of information with which we began: information is what enables the narrowing down from prior uncertainty (the initial range of possibilities) to later certainty (the “successful” choice among the prior probabilities). According to this analogy, natural selection is by definition a process whereby information is fed into the gene pool of the next generation.

If natural selection feeds information into gene pools, what is the information about? It is about how to survive. Strictly it is about how to survive and reproduce, in the conditions that prevailed when previous generations were alive. To the extent that present day conditions are different from ancestral conditions, the ancestral genetic advice will be wrong. In extreme cases, the species may then go extinct. To the extent that conditions for the present generation are not too different from conditions for past generations, the information fed into present-day genomes from past generations is helpful information. Information from the ancestral past can be seen as a manual for surviving in the present: a family bible of ancestral “advice” on how to survive today. We need only a little poetic licence to say that the information fed into modern genomes by natural selection is actually information about ancient environments in which ancestors survived.

This idea of information fed from ancestral generations into descendant gene pools is one of the themes of my new book, Unweaving the Rainbow. It takes a whole chapter, “The Genetic Book of the Dead”, to develop the notion, so I won’t repeat it here except to say two things. First, it is the whole gene pool of the species as a whole, not the genome of any particular individual, which is best seen as the recipient of the ancestral information about how to survive. The genomes of particular individuals are random samples of the current gene pool, randomised by sexual recombination. Second, we are privileged to “intercept” the information if we wish, and “read” an animal’s body, or even its genes, as a coded description of ancestral worlds. To quote from Unweaving the Rainbow: “And isn’t it an arresting thought? We are digital archives of the African Pliocene, even of Devonian seas; walking repositories of wisdom out of the old days. You could spend a lifetime reading in this ancient library and die unsated by the wonder of it.”

1 The producers never deigned to send me a copy: I completely forgot about it until an American colleague called it to my attention.

2 See Barry Williams (1998): “Creationist Deception Exposed”, The Skeptic 18, 3, pp 7 – 10, for an account of how my long pause (trying to decide whether to throw them out) was made to look like hesitant inability to answer the question, followed by an apparently evasive answer to a completely different question.

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14 Re: Richard Dawkins on Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:52 pm

http://www.discovery.org/a/4278

A RESPONSE TO DR. DAWKINS' "THE INFORMATION CHALLENGE"
By: Casey Luskin
Evolution News & Views
October 4, 2007


In September, 2007, I posted a link to a YouTube video where Richard Dawkins was asked to explain the origin of genetic information, according to Darwinism. I also posted a link to Dawkins' rebuttal to the video, where he purports to explain the origin of genetic information according to Darwinian evolution. The question posed to Dawkins was, "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or evolutionary process that can be seen to increase the information in the genome?" Dawkins famously commented that the question was "the kind of question only a creationist would ask . . ." Dawkins writes, "In my anger I refused to discuss the question further, and told them to stop the camera." Dawkins' highly emotional response calls into question whether he is capable of addressing this issue objectively. This will be a response assessing Dawkins' answer to "The Information Challenge."

Part 1: Specified Complexity Is the Measure of Biological Complexity.
Dawkins writes, "First you first have to explain the technical meaning of 'information'." While that sounds reasonable, Dawkins pulls a bait-and-switch and defines information as "Shannon information"—a formulation of "information" that applies to signal transmission and does not account for the type of specified complexity found in biology.

It is common for Darwinists to define information as "Shannon information," which is related to calculating the mere unlikelihood of a sequence of events. Under their definition, a functionless stretch of genetic junk might have the same amount "information" as a fully functional gene of the same sequence-length. ID-proponents don't see this as a useful way of measuring biological information. ID-proponents define information as complex and specified information—DNA which is finely-tuned to do something. Stephen C. Meyer writes that ID-theorists use "(CSI) as a synonym for "specified complexity" to help distinguish functional biological information from mere Shannon information—that is, specified complexity from mere complexity." As the ISCID encyclopedia explains, "Unlike specified complexity, Shannon information is solely concerned with the improbability or complexity of a string of characters rather than its patterning or significance."

The Inconvenient Truth for Dawkins: The difference between the Darwinist and ID definitions of information is equivalent to the difference between getting 10 consecutive losing hands in a poker game versus getting 10 consecutive royal flushes. One implicates design, while the other does not.

It is important to note ID proponents did not invent the notion of "specified complexity," nor were they the first to observe that "specified complexity" is the best way to describe biological information. My first knowledge of the term being used comes from leading origin of life theorist Leslie Orgel, who used it in 1973 in a fashion that closely resembles the modern usage by ID proponents:

[L]iving organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals are usually taken as the prototypes of simple, well-specified structures, because they consist of a very large number of identical molecules packed together in a uniform way. Lumps of granite or random mixtures of polymers are examples of structures which are complex but not specified. The crystals fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; the mixtures of polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.

(Leslie E. Orgel, The Origins of Life: Molecules and Natural Selection," pg.189 (Chapman & Hall: London, 1973).)
Orgel thus captures the fact that specified complexity requires both order and a specific arrangement of parts or symbols. This matches the definition given by Dembski, where he defines specified complexity as an unlikely event that conforms to an independent pattern. This establishes that specified complexity is the appropriate measure of biological complexity.

Additionally, Richard Dawkins' article admits that "DNA carries information in a very computer-like way, and we can measure the genome's capacity in bits too, if we wish." That's an interesting analogy, reminiscent of the design overtones of Dawkins concession elsewhere that "[t]he machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like. Apart from differences in jargon, the pages of a molecular biology journal might be interchanged with those of a computer engineering journal." (Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life, pg. 17 (New York: Basic Books, 1995).) Of course, Dawkins believes that the processes of random mutation and unguided selection ultimately built "[t]he machine code of the genes" and made it "uncannily computer-like." But I do not think a scientist is unjustified in reasoning that in our experience, machine codes and computers only derive from intelligence.

Part 2: Does Gene Duplication Increase Information Content?
In this section, I will show why merely citing gene duplication does not help one understand how Darwinian evolution can produce new genetic information. Dawkins' main point in his "The Information Challenge" article is that "[n]ew genes arise through various kinds of duplication." So his answer to the creationist question that so upset him is gene duplication. Yet during the actual gene-duplication process, a pre-existing gene is merely copied, and nothing truly new is generated. As Michael Egnor said in response to PZ Myers: "[G]ene duplication is, presumably, not to be taken too seriously. If you count copies as new information, you must have a hard time with plagiarism in your classes. All that the miscreant students would have to say is 'It's just like gene duplication. Plagiarism is new information- you said so on your blog!'"

Duplicating Genes Doesn't Increase Biological Information in Any Important Sense
I now have 2 questions to ask of Darwinists who claim that the mechanism of gene duplication explains how Darwinian evolutionary processes can increase the information content in the genome:

(1) Does gene duplication increase the information content?

(2) Does gene duplication increase the information content?
Asking the question twice obviously does not double the meaningful information conveyed by the question. How many times would the question have to be duplicated before the meaningful information conveyed by the list of duplicated questions is twice that of the original question? The answer is that the mere duplication of a sentence does NOT increase the complex and specified information content in any meaningful way. Imagine that a builder of houses has a blueprint to build a new house, but the blueprint does not contain enough information to build the house to the specifications that the builder desires. Could the builder obtain the needed additional information merely by photocopying the original blueprint? Of course not.

Darwinists Must Give Detailed Accounts of how a Duplicated Gene Acquires its New Function
The Darwinist would probably reply to my objection by saying, "Well, it isn't just gene duplication that increases the genetic information — such information is increased when gene duplication is coupled with the subsequent evolution of one of the new copies of the gene." Aye, there's the rub.

Darwinists laud the mechanism of gene duplication because they claim it shows how one copy of a gene can perform the original function, freeing up the other copy to mutate, evolve, and acquire a new function. But the new genetic information must somehow be generated during that subsequent evolution of the gene. To explain how Darwinian processes can generate new and meaningful genetic information, Darwinists must provide a detailed account of how a duplicate copy of a gene can evolve into an entirely new gene. But ask Darwinists for details as to how the duplicate copy then starts to perform some new function, and you probably won't get any. At least, Dawkins didn't given us any details (as I explain below) about this in his "The Information Challenge" article, which I am rebutting here.

A recent study in Nature admitted, "Gene duplication and loss is a powerful source of functional innovation. However, the general principles that govern this process are still largely unknown." (Ilan Wapinski, Avi Pfeffer, Nir Friedman & Aviv Regev, "Natural history and evolutionary principles of gene duplication in fungi," Nature, Vol. 449:54-61 (September 6, 2007).) Yet the crucial question that must be answered by the gene duplication mechanism is, exactly how does the duplicate copy acquire an entirely new function? Stephen Meyer explains in Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington that it is difficult to imagine how duplicated genes acquire new functions since they must successfully undergo "neutral evolution" and traverse a random walk in order to acquire a new function:

[N]eo-Darwinists envision new genetic information arising from those sections of the genetic text that can presumably vary freely without consequence to the organism. According to this scenario, non-coding sections of the genome, or duplicated sections of coding regions, can experience a protracted period of "neutral evolution" (Kimura 1983) during which alterations in nucleotide sequences have no discernible effect on the function of the organism. Eventually, however, a new gene sequence will arise that can code for a novel protein. At that point, natural selection can favor the new gene and its functional protein product, thus securing the preservation and heritability of both.

This scenario has the advantage of allowing the genome to vary through many generations, as mutations "search" space of possible base sequences. The scenario has an overriding problem, however: the size of the combinatorial space (i.e., the number of possible amino acid sequences) and the extreme rarity and isolation of the functional sequences within that space of possibilities. Since natural selection can do nothing to help generate new functional sequences, but rather can only preserve such sequences once they have arisen, chance alone—random variation—must do the work of information generation—that is, of finding the exceedingly rare functional sequences within the set of combinatorial possibilities. Yet the probability of randomly assembling (or "finding," in the previous sense) a functional sequence is extremely small.

(Stephen C. Meyer, "The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories," Proceedings for the Biological Society of Washington, Vol. 117(2):213-239 (2004).)
The Inconvenient Truth for Dawkins: At best, the mechanism of gene duplication shows how a hiker can get to the foot of a hiking trail, but never explains how the hiker finds the peak of the mountain, while doing a random, blindfolded walk. We don't need to know that genes can make copies of themselves; we need to know how the duplicate gene evolves, step-by-step, into an entirely new gene.

Mistaking Similarity as Evidence for Common Descent, and then Mistaking Common Descent as Evidence for Darwinian Evolution
Rather than giving a step-by-step mutational account of how a duplicated gene acquires a new function, Dawkins' article substitutes bland evidence of sequence identity between different genes as evidence for Darwinian evolution by gene duplication. Dawkins gives the example of the evolution of various globin genes that he claims arose via gene duplication. His evidence is that "[c]areful letter-by-letter analysis shows that these different kinds of globin genes are literally cousins of each other, literally members of a family." Of course the "[c]areful letter-by-letter analysis" simply means finding amino acid sequences that are similar or identical between two different proteins. David Swift explains that such claims of relationship "are inferred solely on the basis of assuming a common ancestry and then deriving a route of polypeptide evolution, typically the most parsimonious one, to fit the known present day amino acid sequences and consistent with the observed pattern of conserved amino acids." (David Swift, Evolution Under the Microscope, pg. 165 (Leighton Academic Press, 2002), emphasis in original.) At best, such sequence identity demonstrates common ancestry (if one ignores the possibility of common design), but it does not demonstrate Darwinian evolution. Michael Behe easily rebutted the over-extrapolation from sequence-similarity to Darwinian evolution in both Darwin's Black Box and The Edge of Evolution:

"Although useful for determining lines of descent ... comparing sequences cannot show how a complex biochemical system achieved its function—the question that most concerns us in this book. By way of analogy, the instruction manuals for two different models of computer put out by the same company might have many identical words, sentences, and even paragraphs, suggesting a common ancestry (perhaps the same author wrote both manuals), but comparing the sequences of letters in the instruction manuals will never tell us if a computer can be produced step-by-step starting from a typewriter....Like the sequence analysts, I believe the evidence strongly supports common descent. But the root question remains unanswered: What has caused complex systems to form?" (Michael Behe, Darwin's Black Box, pgs. 175-176.)

"[M]odern Darwinists point to evidence of common descent and erroneously assume it to be evidence of the power of random mutation." (Michael Behe, The Edge of Evolution, pg. 95.)
Darwinists like Dawkins continue to make the mistake cited by Behe and Swift. (In fact, if you read the aforementioned "Natural history and evolutionary principles of gene duplication in fungi" article, you'll find it gives only anecdotal or circumstantial evidence of evolution by gene duplication, not directly observed evidence, and there certainly aren't any detailed step-by-step models for how the genes evolved.)

The Dangerous Road Faced by Duplicated Genes
If a duplicated gene cannot successfully traverse its random walk, it may die. As Lynch and Conery found, "the vast majority of gene duplicates are silenced within a few million years." (Lynch & Conery, "The Evolutionary Fate and Consequence of Duplicate Genes," Science Vol. 290:1151-1155 (Nov 10, 2000).) Does Richard Dawkins give a step-by-step mutational account of how globin genes evolved from one another while remaining functional at all times, such that the duplicate copies were never "silenced," terminating their evolution? Of course not. Dawkins has not demonstrated how Darwinian evolution can take a duplicated gene and evolve it into a new gene. The problem for Dawkins is that duplicating a gene may increase your amount of Shannon information, but it does not increase the amount of specified complexity in any non-trivial sense. To explain how one gene can turn into another, Dawkins must explain how new specified and complex information can enter the genome, and give a step-by-step mutational account of the origin of some gene via gene duplication. Dawkins has provided none of this.

To understand this point, consider the following sentence (with spaces removed):

METHINKSDAWKINSDOTHPROTESTTOOMUCH
If we merely consider the Shannon information of the 33 letters (not counting spaces) in the sentence, then it has about 155 bits of Shannon Information. Now we duplicate it, like what happens in a gene duplication event:

METHINKSDAWKINSDOTHPROTESTTOOMUCHMETHINKSDAWKINSDOTHPROTESTTOOMUCH
The amount of Shannon information has now doubled (~310 bits), but we have seen no non-trivial increase in the amount of specified complexity. Still, Dawkins thinks gene duplication is the answer, and that "[i]t is by these, and similar means, that genome sizes can increase in evolution."

The Shannon information in the doubled-string is twice the Shannon information in the shorter string if the shorter string does nothing to predict the sequence of the doubled-string. By granting this assumption, we are able to increase the Shannon information in the genome, even though this is a trivial informational increase that does not provide a meaningful increase in the specified complexity. The key questions are (a) what process is generating the new sequence, and (b) to what extent does that process predict the new sequence? In this sense, duplicating a gene would predict that the duplicate gene would be an identical copy of the original gene. From this standpoint, gene duplication actually does NOTHING to increase the Shannon information in the genome because you can predict the sequence of the new stretch of the DNA with a Probability of 1 (where Log (1) = 0), leading to an increase in the Shannon information of 0 bits. In this sense, the Shannon information in the doubled-string is not increased at all from the original, shorter string, as it remains 155 bits. Keep in mind that it is Dawkins who raised the issue of increasing Shannon information in the genome via gene duplication. Viewed in this fashion, Dawkins' claim that gene duplication can increase the Shannon information is even more dubious: if gene duplication predicts that you will have an identical copy of the original gene, then gene duplication not only fails to increase the specified and complex information, it also fails to increase the Shannon information in the genome.

But we aren't trying to simply change the "genome siz[e]," and thereby change the Shannon information. We're trying to construct something functionally new. Thus, imagine that one duplicate copy of the original sentence evolves into a new sentence of the same length:

BUTIMSUREDAWKINSBELIEVESHEISRIGHT
A Darwinian theorist would find that both sentences contain the word "Dawkins," and thus share a 21% sequence identity. They would then infer that both sentences evolved from that common ancestor via Darwinian evolution. They would conclude that a duplicated version of the sentence "METHINKSDAWKINSDOTHPROTESTTOOMUCH" has evolved into "BUTIMSUREDAWKINSBELIEVESHEISRIGHT."

David Swift explains that finding such similarities is not enough to justify the claim that Darwinian evolution has produced the observed pattern: "[F]or family trees to be credible, most if not all of the putative ancestral sequences must be functional; but this presents a major stumbling block in the production by divergence of proteins with different functions. To get from one set of conserved amino acids to another is either an unlikely big jump, or the intermediates must have biological activity; but the latter seems unlikely because it contradicts what we know about conserved amino acids." (Pg. 166). Thus, in order for Darwinists to convince me that Darwinian evolution can produce new information, at minimum I need to see a step-by-step mutational account of how they can take the sentence:

"METHINKSDAWKINSDOTHPROTESTTOOMUCH"

and evolve it into:

"BUTIMSUREDAWKINSBELIEVESHEISRIGHT"
by changing the first sentence one letter at a time, and having it always retain some comprehensible English meaning along each small step of its evolution. Telling me that you can duplicate the sentence does NOT answer the question posed in the video, "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or evolutionary process that can be seen to increase the information in the genome?" As Michael Behe requested over ten years ago in Darwin's Black Box, what is required is a "detailed, scientific [explanation of] how mutation and natural selection could build" the sentence. (Behe, Darwin's Black Box, pg. 176.)

Don't Blame Natural Selection: It's Just Acting upon What Mutations Provide
It's worth noting that Dawkins finally claims that it is natural selection that "feeds information into gene pools" by selecting for mutations that help organisms survive. Thus, Dawkins would argue that the information in the environment is transferred into the genome of the organism. Fair enough. But Dawkins isn't telling the most important part of this story. We all know that mutations must provide the raw fuel upon which natural selection can act. As Gilbert, Opitz, and Raff write:

The Modern Synthesis is a remarkable achievement. However, starting in the 1970s, many biologists began questioning its adequacy in explaining evolution. Genetics might be adequate for explaining microevolution, but microevolutionary changes in gene frequency were not seen as able to turn a reptile into a mammal or to convert a fish into an amphibian. Microevolution looks at adaptations that concern only the survival of the fittest, not the arrival of the fittest. As Goodwin (1995) points out, "the origin of species—Darwin's problem—remains unsolved.

(Scott Gilbert, John Opitz, and Rudolf Raff (1996) "Resynthesizing Evolutionary and Developmental Biology," Developmental Biology 173, 1996, pg. 361.)
Natural selection can (given the right population circumstances, etc.) preserve traits that confer a survival advantage, and it is very effective at weeding out traits that are disadvantageous. But natural selection can only act upon what mutations provide. Thus, we can't account for the survival of particular mutations until we account for the arrival of particular mutations. We cannot account for the increase in information content of genomes until we consider how random mutations produce the raw fuel that natural selection can preserve.

My Information Challenge Reiterated:
So here is my "Information Challenge": For the sake of the argument, I will grant that every stage of the evolutionary pathway I requested above will survive, and thus I'll give natural selection every possible benefit of the doubt. What I need is a step-by-step mutation account of how one sentence evolved into the other wherein the sentence remains functional — i.e., it has comprehensible English meaning — at all stages of its evolution. In short, I request to see how:

"METHINKSDAWKINSDOTHPROTESTTOOMUCH"

can evolve into:

"BUTIMSUREDAWKINSBELIEVESHEISRIGHT"
by changing the first sentence one letter at a time, and having it always retain some comprehensible English meaning along each small step of its evolution. This seems like a reasonable request, as it is not highly different from what Darwinists are telling me can happen in nature.

How would Dawkins reply? Would he get angry and complain that this is "the kind of question only a creationist would ask"? Or would he dodge the question like he did in his "The Information Challenge" article? Personally, I'd like to see an answer to the question.

Part 3: Dawkins "Junk"-DNA Blunder.
Dawkins' article has other problems. He writes that "most of the capacity of the genome of any animal is not used to store useful information." This is another good example demonstrating how Neo-Darwinism led may scientists to wrongly believe that non-coding DNA was largely junk. Dawkins' statement is directly refuted by the findings of recent studies, which the Washington Post reported that scientists have now found that "the vast majority of the 3 billion 'letters' of the human genetic code are busily toiling at an array of previously invisible tasks." That strikes a fatal blow to Dawkins' argument:

Dawkins then (1998) Scientists now (2007)
Position regarding "Junk"-DNA: "most of the capacity of the genome of any animal is not used to store useful information" "the vast majority of the 3 billion 'letters' of the human genetic code are busily toiling at an array of previously invisible tasks"

Dawkins claims that there is "lots of repetitive nonsense" in the genome. But is it really "nonsense"? Recent studies are finding increasing function for allegedly non-functional repetitive DNA. Richard Sternberg surveyed the literature and found extensive evidence for function in repetitive DNA (also called repetitive elements, or "REs"). A listing of functions for REs reprinted from Sternberg's paper is shown below:

� satellite repeats forming higher-order nuclear structures;
� satellite repeats forming centromeres;
� satellite repeats and other REs involved in chromatin condensation;
� telomeric tandem repeats and LINE elements;
� subtelomeric nuclear positioning/chromatin boundary elements;
� non-TE interspersed chromatin boundary elements;
� short, interspersed nuclear elements or SINEs as nucleation centers for methylation;
� SINEs as chromatin boundary/insulator elements;
� SINEs involved in cell proliferation;
� SINEs involved in cellular stress responses;
� SINEs involved in translation (may be connected to stress response);
� SINEs involved in binding cohesin to chromosomes; and
� LINEs involved in DNA repair.

(Richard Sternberg, "On the Roles of Repetitive DNA Elements in the Context of a Unified Genomic-Epigenetic System," Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, Vol. 981:154-188 (2002).)
Dawkins not only got repetitive junk-DNA wrong, he provides a shimmering example of the fact that neo-Darwinism has led many scientists to wrongly presume that junk-DNA has no function. Some Darwinists have tried to counter that claim by arguing that Neo-Darwinism also led other biologists to presume function for junk-DNA, since its mere presence in the genome implies that natural selection has preserved it for some purpose. Even if that were a good argument, the fact remains that the false junk-DNA mindset was born and bred out of the Neo-Darwinian paradigm. That paradigm misled many scientists on this point, and in fact continues to mislead them.

But it isn't even clear that Darwinists have a good scientific justification to believe that junk-DNA, if it exists, would be naturally selected out of the genome. According to the 2006 edition of Voet and Voet's Biochemistry, there is insufficient selection pressure on functionless repetitive "junk"-DNA to remove it from the genome:

No function has been unequivocally assigned to moderately repetitive DNA, which has therefore been termed selfish or junk DNA. This DNA apparently is a molecular parasite that, over many generations, has disseminated itself throughout the genome through transposition. The theory of natural selection predicts that the increased metabolic burden imposed by the replication of an otherwise harmless selfish DNA would eventually lead to its elimination. Yet for slowly growing eukaryotes, the relative disadvantage of replicating an additional 100 bp of selfish DNA in an 1-billion-bp genome would be so slight that its rate of elimination would be balanced by its rate of propagation. Because unexpressed sequences are subject to little selective pressure, they accumulate mutations at a greater rate than do expressed sequences.

(Donald Voet and Judith G. Voet, Biochemistry, pg. 1020 (Jon Wiley & Sons, 2006), emphasis added.)
In other words, Darwinists like Dawkins had every reason to presume that non-coding repetitive DNA was, in Dawkins' words, functionless "nonsense" that was, in Voet and Voet's words, a "molecular parasite," even though it persisted in the genome. But Voet and Voet are wrong to presume that such repetitive DNA is mere parasitic junk, given that examples of functions for it abound. Sternberg's article concluded that "the selfish DNA narrative and allied frameworks must join the other 'icons' of neo-Darwinian evolutionary theory that, despite their variance with empirical evidence, nevertheless persist in the literature." Sternberg, along with geneticist James A. Shapiro, concludes elsewhere that "one day, we will think of what used to be called 'junk DNA' as a critical component of truly 'expert' cellular control regimes." (Richard Sternberg and James A. Shapiro, "How Repeated Retroelements format genome function," Cytogenetic and Genome Research, Vol. 110:108-116 (2005).)

It looks like Dawkins has some work to do if he is to update all of his arguments against ID and answer "The Information Challenge."

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15 Re: Richard Dawkins on Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:34 pm

Yay. A thread dedicated to throwing mud at a guy who spanks you every time.


By the way god doesn't exist. All the so-called evidence on this forum is cackapoo. And forum rules don't apply to me here. Woo hoo.

Although I have to admit I'm getting bored trolling all these threads. But now I've started I'll have to finish. Damn it.

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