Does the Fossil Record prove Noah's flood ?

elshamah888 · 1 Does the Fossil Record prove Noah's flood ? on Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:53 pm

elshamah888

Posts: 1225
Join date: 2009-08-09

The Fossil Record

http://detectingdesign.com/fossilrecord.html

Startling Evidence That Noah's Flood Really Happened

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGeULHljDn8

http://bibleprobe.com/creationism.htm

The worldwide Flood in the time of Noah is no fable! According to Scripture, God destroyed the ungodly who then lived on the earth. It is probable that this ungodly people included giants who were born from the unholy union of the descendents of Adam and the fallen angels. This probably created a gene pool which resulted in our short live spans, cancer, heart disease, etc.
All archeological evidence supports the biblical account that a worldwide flood did happen. Countless fossilized sea creatures have been found on mountain tops. And countless fossilized creatures (including dinosaurs) have been found with food in their mouths --as if they were suddenly buried in an avalanche of rushing water and mud.

Scientists will not admit it, but their carbon dating technique is not any good at all beyond a couple of thousands of years. Because the effect of rushing water, heavy pressure from water, and resting water -- rocks on this planet appear to be millions of years old to these unbelieving scientists and their carbon dating technique. Things fossilize much quicker than scientists will tell you. Scientists will have you believe it takes millions of years to fossilize something. Yet a fossilized pickle has been found in a canning jar, and a fossilized foot has been found inside a 1930's-1940's cowboy boot in a West Texas riverbed. See above.

That's not all. Accounts of the worldwide flood come in from nearly every culture on earth. Most of these are identical. Flood accounts come in from Mayan, Persian, Aztec, Sanskrit, Chinese, Egyptian, Babylonian, Inca, Samarian, American Indian, Jewish cultures, and more. The Mayan writings say that water cleansed the earth in 3113 B.C.

Can the Redwoods Date the Flood?

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=239

Can the Redwoods Date the Flood?
by Dorothy E. Kreiss Robbins

cience, Biblical and anti-Biblical, recognizes that there was a period of time in the distant past when the earth was barren. How long ago and how long it lasted is a matter of conjecture ... unless one accepts the Biblical record. But out in California, almost as far west as one can go, there stand beautiful monuments to the past —the redwoods: monuments that were seedlings when Noah was laid to rest; saplings when the tower of Babylon was deserted; stalwart young giants when David downed his giant. And when the tree on which Christ was hung lost its life, there on the shores and mountain sides of California, those same redwoods were "lifting leafy arms to pray." They still stand there, those California redwoods, Sequoia sempervirens and Sequoiadendron giganteum.

The life story of the giant sequoia, the older of the two California redwoods, poses a number of fascinating questions that science has heretofore been unable to answer. Not the least of these are: 1) Exactly how old are they? 2) Why don't we find living specimens much older than approximately 3200-plus years? 3) Why are they limited to the mountains of California?

When we examine the writings of eminent dendrochronologists, we find that the life span of the giant sequoia is over 3200 years ... with many authorities estimating its age much greater. Richard J. Hartesveldt says, "At this writing," (1975) "3200 years of age is the oldest count on record. The stump count was made by A.E. Douglass, the well known dendrochronologist, before 1920. Some hold to much older figures for the greatest age, and a recent author claims one specimen to be 6000 years old."1 In a previous paragraph he had said, "Schmeckbier (1912) states that sequoias never fail to add an annual ring, a statement later refuted by Gillette (1930) who found missing rings in a large specimen.

elshamah888 · 2 Re: Does the Fossil Record prove Noah's flood ? on Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:02 am

elshamah888

Posts: 1225
Join date: 2009-08-09

Nevertheless, age dating by ring count remains more accurate than any other method known for the giant sequoia."2 In addition to the ancient bristlecone pine, we may say that the giant sequoia, found only in the Sierra Nevadas of California, IS ONE OF THE OLDEST LIVING THINGS ON EARTH!

The longevity of the giant sequoia is attributed to several factors: it is very resistant to insects, disease and fire. E.F. Clements in a pamphlet, "California Redwoods," said, " … scars show evidence of ancient forest fires, yet the trees grew to maturity."3 Its resistance to fire is due to several factors: the bark is "massively thick, greater than any tree on earth, 24-31" thick" 4, a poor conductor of heat, asbestos-like, and contains small amounts of resin. The wood is also of a soft and sponge-like quality which absorbs water easily.

"Trees," said Asa Gray in his famous essay on the Longevity of Trees, "far outlast all living things. They never die of old age, but only from injury or disease, or, in a word, from accidents. If not destroyed by accident, that is, by extrinsic causes—they do not eventually perish, like ourselves, from old age. It is commonly thought that they are fully exposed to the inevitable fate of all living things…. But the tree is an aggregate of many individuals united in a common trunk and why should not the aggregate, the tree, last indefinitely?" 5

If there is nothing "extrinsic" that can destroy trees and, if the giant sequoia is extremely resistant to insects, disease and fire, why are there no giant sequoias much older than 3200-plus years (using the most authentic and conservative age)? We know from the fossils that they existed long before that ... during the period when "pre-historic" animals also lived. "The pick of the fossil hunter has unearthed fossil remains of sequoia leaves and cones in strata as early as the Triassic. This period represents the morning of reptilian life.... Hence, the sequoia as a race has a claim to almost fabulous antiquity." 6 What could have happened 3200-plus years ago that can account for the discontinuance of the giant sequoia? Listen to one evolutionist's version: " … few of the dramas of the earth which science has restored are more wonderful than the restriction of the sequoia exclusively to the mountains of California. The record of the rocks following the great Age of Reptiles tells quite a different story. With amazing abruptness, all the rich diversity of reptilian life apparently ceased…. A feature so extraordinary seems to demand an unusual explanation. Causes of a violent cataclysmic nature are advanced as valid interpretations. Yet science refuses to take cognizance of universal calamities and considers them as apocryphal because they are too unnatural."7 There we have it. Thousands of years ago " … the sequoia was one of the chief garments of the earth's vegetation during Miocene times. Its forests must have been the most imposing the earth has ever known…. Under the lava flows of Mt. Shasta imprints of its leaves and cones are found. This is indubitable evidence that the sequoia existed in California at that time."8 Then "a terrible solitude was the lord of this universe." 9 And, for a time the three common species of redwood ceased to grow as extensively as before. Why? Is it possible a universal calamity" actually occurred? Perhaps an understanding of the reproduction and growth habits of the giant sequoia can tell us something that would throw light on this mystery.

According to Ellsworth, the giant sequoia reproduces by seed only. These are contained in small, egg-size cones with 30-40 closely packed, woody, persistent scales; the cones mature in two years. The seeds, 30-plus in each cone, are the size of an oat seed with membranous disk-like wings. The cones remain green and closed until dried and open, and may remain attached to the tree in a green, growing condition for 21 years. They do not disseminate the seeds while on the tree. Even severely damaged trees continue to produce cones. In order to germinate, the seed must be buried in moist mineral soil in such places as rocky ledges, steep hillsides and in crevices, with little nutrient needed. There must, however, be open sunlight. The following discovery is most pertinent to our study: seeds have been known to be carried by flood. "Perhaps the best known and most classical grove extension is along the South Fork of the Kaweah River below Garfield Grove. A dozen sequoias line the river bank…. The altitude is the lowest known in the world for a naturally seeded giant sequoia. An increment boring indicates that this tree was seeded in the middle 1880s, when a torrential flood also floated huge Sequoia logs through the town of Visalia some 40 miles to the west of San Joaquin Valley." 10

The young seedling puts down a tap root four to five inches long which may penetrate to 10-15 inches at one year. "At the sapling stage, the root system has spread out laterally and the taproot is gone." On mature trees, the root system may spread out as much as 125 feet from the tree, although the average radius is 40-50 feet. "The shallow depth of the roots of so large a tree surprises nearly all park visitors. How do such trees remain standing without a deeper anchoring root system? ... The trees, it seems, would need to be well balanced to maintain their equilibrium. ... But the number of leaners is surprising." 11 The root system is not only shallow ... the roots soak up moisture like sponges, according to John Muir.

In summary we find:
For some unknown reason, giant sequoias can only be traced back 3200-plus years with specimens in the recent record. Yet this species is found plentifully in the fossil record over a great deal of the earth's surface.
Their disappearance is not likely to have been because of disease, insect infestation or fire, inasmuch as they are very resistant to these. (Note: a fire great enough to totally destroy the trees would also have been sufficient to have destroyed their seeds, as well, it would seem.) Another catastrophe that could account for the sudden discontinuation of trees and dinosaurs ... and pterodactyls ... and men ... is a powerful flood.
The history of a giant sequoia seed from cone to sapling shows that:
The cones could have survived flooding up to 21 years—the Noahic flood lasted only 371-376 days.
Flooding has been shown to have been instrumental in disseminating seeds. The worldwide Noahic flood eventually receded, finally approximating the conditions of a local flood.
The development of the young tree utilizes shallow alluvium for germination, putting down a temporary tap root until a shallow but wide-spread root system can develop. This would make development of the mature tree easier in post-flood conditions.
Although capable of living indefinitely, the greatest age of the giant sequoia is somewhere near 4000 years old, making its reappearance on the earth about 2000 B.C.— just at the time the greatest historical authority, the Bible, puts it.
In conclusion, it would seem that the history and growing habits of the living giant sequoia fit well with the story of the flood, thus:

FLOOD GIANT SEQUOIA
1. Destroyed every living thing 1. Widespread discovery of fossils pre 2000 B.C.
2. Lasted approximately one year 2. Cones may remain on a tree for as long as 21 years
3. Receded, leaving alluvial soil and other conditions suitable for seed germination 3. Seeds need just the kind of soil the flood left
4. There were, no doubt, crevices and hillsides with shallow soil deposits 4. Sequoias grow mostly on granite-based residual and alluvial soil, on metamorphosed basalt, on soil derived from schistose rock
5. As the Noahic flood receded, it would have sown seeds just as happened in the 1880s 5. The Kaweah River area and along the tributary of Rattlesnake Creek show flood dispersals
6. Occurred about 2000 B.C. 6. Began growing about 4000 years ago
Has God given us in the giant sequoia a timepiece by which we may estimate when the flood occurred? What might we discover through a more thorough investigation into the history of the giant sequoia of the Sierra Nevadas? Speaking of another kind of tree, our God once said, "Hast thou not heard how I made it long ago and formed it of ancient times?" (II Kings 19:25)

elshamah888 · 3 Re: Does the Fossil Record prove Noah's flood ? on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:53 pm

elshamah888

Posts: 1225
Join date: 2009-08-09

http://www.unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm

In the past, scientists largely dismissed Noah's flood as a myth, or a local flood, as it was believed that there could not have been enough rainwater to cover the world as high as Mount Everest. Recent discoveries in plate tectonics and crustal physics have shown that a much flatter Earth could have easily been flooded, with the resultant volcanic and geologic activity altering the land surface. These details have demolished the main argument against a global flood, but the tag of "local flood" has remained because atheists do not want any evidence that supports the existence of an Almighty, Creator/God.

Here are over 100 evidences in support of a global flood, rather than a local one.

FROM LOGIC.........[12 reasons]

(1) For rain to fall for forty uninterrupted days on one localized area is currently close to impossible.

(2) A rainbow appeared for the first time after the flood, indicating a radical change in atmospheric conditions as a consequence of a cataclysmic event.

(3) The waters remained for over a year. This would not occur in a local flood.

(4) To be higher than the highest mountains, the flood could not have been local.

(5) To cover the mountains continually for 9 months, the flood could not have been local.

(6) The purpose of the flood was to destroy all human beings. This could only refer to a worldwide flood.

(7) If the flood was local, people living elsewhere in the world would have escaped.

( Cool

The enormous size of the ark (equivalent to the capacity of 500 railroad freight carriages) would hold much more than local species of animals.

(9) The purpose of the ark to "keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth" is only rational if the flood was global.

(10) Noah and his family could have migrated to a locality away from the local area to be flooded. There would have been no need to spend 120 years building an ark.

(11) Many of the animals in the flooding area could have easily migrated to escape the deluge if the flood was local. There would have been no need to build an ark to provide them with a safe haven.

(12) If God made a promise based on a lie (ie. that the flood being local rather than global), then he can't be trusted to save us from our sins.

FROM SCIENCE....... [45 reasons]

(13) There is a worldwide tradition among natives of a global flood.

(14) According to current archaeological evidence, civilization appears to have originated in the Ararat/Babylon region.

(15) The genealogical records of many of the European kings can be traced back to Japheth, son of Noah.

(16) An analysis of population growth statistics confirms that there was zero population at the estimated time of the end of the flood. This indicates the global demise of humans by Noah's flood.

(17) Human palaeontological evidence exists even in the earliest geologic 'ages' (eg human footprints in Cambrian, Carboniferous, and Cretaceous rocks). If the layers of rock were laid down by a global flood and then interpreted as evolutionary long-ages, human remains and artefacts would appear to be in such positions.

(18) The most ancient human artefacts date to the post-flood era. This indicates that the earlier hardware could have been buried beyond reach by a huge flood.

(19) Calculations have shown that there is nearly the same amount of organic material present today, worldwide, as there would have been if all the fossils were still alive (Morris p:685). This indicates the demise of all living things in a single global event.

(20) Palaeontological evidence indicates that the early earth had a warm/humid climate. This is consistent with the destruction of the old atmosphere by the processes of a global flood as described in Genesis.

(21) The glacial period started very quickly. This would require a cataclysmic event such as a global flood to trigger such a rapid climatic change.

(22) Similar geologic formations exist in rocks of all ages (eg rifts, folds, faults, thrusts, etc.). These can just as easily be explained as being created in the same cataclysmic global event.

(23) Studies show that much of the world's folded beds of sediment have no compression fractures, indicating that they were contorted while they were still wet and soft. For this to occur on a global scale, and on sediment thousands of metres thick, it would have required a catastrophic global flood.

(24) Rocks of different geologic 'ages' have similar physical features indicating that they could have been created by a single worldwide event - such as a global flood.

(25) There is an absence of physical evidence that indicates a time change between rocks of 'successive ages'. Sedimentary rock layers worldwide appear to have been laid down very quickly, as by a global flood.

(26) Globally, there is an almost complete absence of any evidence of animal and plant root activity within the tiny layers of sediment. Slowly deposited layers should show this activity, flood deposits wouldn't.

(27) All types of rocks (eg limestone, shale, granite, etc) occur in all geologic 'ages'. This indicates a common formation on a global scale - the situation that would have been created by the mixing of sediment in a global flood.

(28) Many geological processes have a recent geological date. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie. as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(29) Recent volcanic rocks are distributed widely. (see last point above)

(30) The uplift of the major mountain ranges are relatively young, based on evolutionary chronology. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(31) There is a lack of correlation between radiometric 'ages' and assumed palaeontological 'ages' (Morris p:686). A global flood could easily create an illusion of geologic 'ages'. The consequent conflict between dating methods confirms the illusion.

(32) Fossil 'graveyards' are found worldwide, and in rocks of all 'ages'. Only a catastrophic global flood could achieve this.

(33) The burial of fossil deposits worldwide had to have occurred in a catastrophic event. Only massive flooding could bury in such a fashion.

(34) Marine fossils can be found on the crests of mountains. Apart from mountain uplifting, this can also be explained as the marine animals being washed there and then buried. A global flood could do this.

(35) There is a worldwide distribution of most of the fossil types, indicating transportation on a global scale by a global flood.

(36) Fossils from different 'ages' are often found mixed. This indicates a huge mixing of animal bones that is not consistent with a local flood.

(37) Worldwide, fossils from different 'ages' are often found in the wrong order. This indicates a global mixing of fossils as a consequence of a global flood.

(38) Supposed evolutionary fossil sequences often parallel the ecological zonation that occurs today (Morris p:686). If a global flood mixed organisms from different areas, it would create the illusion of a fossil sequence over time.

(39) Dinosaurs and many other prehistoric creatures died out suddenly. A catastrophe such as a global flood could have produced this result.

(40) Polystrate fossils (viz. vertical fossil tree trunks) that are found worldwide indicate turbulent or rapid deposition. A global flood would be required to do this worldwide.

(41) Polystrate fossils also form when water-logged timber sinks in a large body of water. A year long global flood could produce worldwide polystrate fossils formed in this way.

(42) Animal tracks and other ephemeral markings (ripple-marks and raindrop imprints) have been preserved throughout the geological column. Rapid covering of these markings is required for this preservation worldwide - ie. by a global flood.

(43) Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column. With the large number of meteorites hitting the earth each year, they should be very plentiful throughout the sedimentary rocks - unless much of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down in one year.

(44) Sedimentary rocks contain fossil ripple-marks and raindrop imprints, but no hail imprints. A global flood (with associated rain), that was not caused by storms would not leave hail imprint marks.

(45) Some desert areas show evidence of 'recent' water bodies. Water from a recent global flood would remain in large pools (bodies of water) for some time before evaporating.

(46) There is evidence of a recent drastic rise in sea level. A global flood could easily have created this feature.

(47) Raised shorelines are found worldwide indicating a time when the world had a different sea level. A consistent interpretation of this is that a global flood altered the levels of the oceans and seas.

(48) Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world are consistent with the recession of a global flood.

(49) River terraces are found worldwide. (Morris p:685)

(50) There is a universal occurrence of rivers in valleys too large for the present stream. Slow erosion over millions of years could not have created these valleys as the mountains would have eroded, keeping pace with the valley erosion. The drainage of global floodwaters from the land surface could easily create such wide valleys in a short period of time.

(51) Only modern sediments show any evidence of surface drainage systems. If the majority of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down by a global flood there would not be any sign of drainage erosion except for the top layers eroded during the recession of the flood waters off the land.

(52) Hydrologic evidence points to the rapid deposition of sedimentary rock layers. Therefore, the thousand's of metres of sediment must have been deposited by a catastrophic global flood.

(53) Hydrologic evidence points to the world's sedimentary rocks being deposited in one continuous episode. All the layers could have been laid down by a single event, such as a global flood.

(54) Hydrologic experiments show that flowing sediment automatically settles out in distinct layers. Therefore, sedimentary rock layers can be just as easily explained as flood debris, as slow deposition.

(55) There is a worldwide occurrence of deep alluvial deposits and sedimentary rocks consistent with a huge global flood.

(56) There is a near-random deposition of formational sequences. (Morris p:685)

(57) Nowhere in the world is it possible to see the complete geologic column as a single structure. It is always found in bits and pieces, and mostly with pieces missing. Globally, a worldwide flood could create the illusion of a geologic column.

(58) The oldest organisms still alive on Earth today, the Californian Redwoods, Sequoias and Bristlecone Pines, are around 3,000-4,000 years old. Nothing is older that the date of Noah's flood.

FROM THE GENESIS NARRATIVE........ [47 reasons]

(59) The account in Genesis speaks of the flood being a universal event at least thirty times.

(60) God promised three times not to "smite [destroy - NKJ] every living thing" by a flood (Gen 8:21; 9:11; 9:15). Three occurrences in Scripture indicates absolute truth.

(61) Following the flood, Eden was no longer discussed geographically. If it was a local flood, its general whereabouts would still be known. The total obliteration of the whole earth's geography is therefore inferred - such as by a global flood.

(62) The "waters above the firmament [earth - NKJ]" would not have been localised into a small area. (Gen 1:7)

(63) No rain on the earth before the flood speaks of a worldwide condition. (Gen 2:5)

(64) The whole earth was watered by a mist, prior to the flood. (Gen 2:6)

(65) The dawn of civilization had a high civilization (Genesis chapter 4). This was wiped out and did not recover for a long time.

(66) The long life spans of the pre-diluvial people indicates an entirely different biosphere. (Gen 5:5; 5:8; 5:11; etc)

(67) The subsequent decline in life span following the flood indicates a radically different biosphere. (Gen 23:1; 25:7)

(68) God described the pre-flood people as universally evil (Gen 6:5). He never described the post-flood people as universally evil, so something universal (ie. worldwide) must have happened to weed it out.

(69) Mankind had multiplied all over the earth (Gen 6:1), so the flood had to be global to destroy them all.

(70) God was sorry that he created all living creatures, not just a localised population of animal creatures. (Gen 6:6-7)

(71) The whole earth was seen by God as corrupt. (Gen 6:11-12)

(72) God decided to destroy the whole earth. (Gen 6:13)

(73) Everything that had breath was to die. (Gen 6:17)

(74) The purpose of the ark was to keep two of every breathing animal (ie. worldwide species) alive. (Gen 6:19)

(75) Two of every kind of animal and bird came to Noah, not just local fauna. (Gen 6:20)

(76) Noah had to collect samples of all food eaten, not just local foodstuffs. (Gen 6:21)

(77) God wanted the ark "to keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth". (Gen 7:3)

(78) God promised to destroy every living thing on the earth. (Gen 7:4)

(79) The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood, so it must have been different to all other floods. (Gen 7:10)

(80) All the "fountains of the great deep" broke up in one incident. (Gen 7:11)

(81) The "fountains of the great deep" would not have affected a simple, local land-based flood. (Gen 7:11)

(82) The opening of the windows of heaven (if this refers to "the waters above the firmament") would had a global impact. (Gen 7:11)

(83) The double superlative, "all the high mountains under all the heavens" ["all the high hills under the whole heaven" - NKJ], indicates a global covering. (Gen 7:19)

(84) The highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits (6.75m) of water. (Gen 7:20)

(85) The Hebrew word, "kasah", used to mean that the mountains were covered has a meaning of "overwhelming". (Gen 7:20)

(86) Every human died on the whole earth. (Gen 7:21)

(87) All living things on dry land, with "nephesh" life in them, died. (Gen 7:22)

(88) Every living thing on the earth was destroyed. (Gen 7:23)

(89) The floodwater remained at maximum height for 5 months. (Gen 7:24)

(90) The "fountains of the deep" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(91) The "windows of heaven" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(92) The floodwaters took 5 months to drain off the land. (Gen 8:3)

(93) The ark floated above the mountains for 5 months. (Gen 8:4)

(94) The waters receded for 2.5 months before the mountain tops were visible. (Gen 8:5)

(95) The dove couldn't find solid ground until the water had receded for 4 months. (Gen 8:9)

(96) Plants did not grow for 9 months. (Gen 8:11)

(97) Noah, his family, and the animals were in the ark for over a year. (Gen 8:14)

(98) All current life came out of the ark. (Gen 8:19)

(99) God promised that he would not destroy all living things again in the same way. (Gen 8:21)

(100) The current seasonal conditions date from the end of the flood (Gen 8:22), indicating a radical change from the previous environment.

(101) God commanded Noah and his family to breed and fill the earth with people again. (Gen 9:1)

(102) A flood will not be used by God to destroy the earth again. (Gen 9:11)

(103) The earth was re-populated from Noah's family. (Gen 9:19)

(104) Everyone spoke the same language after the flood (Gen 11:1), indicating decent from a single ancestor.

(105) Everyone lived in the same area after the flood. (Gen 11:9)

FROM ELSEWHERE IN SCRIPTURE...... [9 reasons]

(106) The floodwaters overturned the earth. (Job 12:15)

(107) The floodwaters covered the whole earth. (Is 54:9)

(108) The flood took all people off the face of the earth. (Matt 24:39) - Jesus talking

(109) The flood destroyed all humans. (Luke 17:27) - Jesus talking

(110) The whole world was condemned. (Heb 11:7)

(111) God destroyed the old world. (II Peter 2:5)

(112) God flooded the whole world. (II Peter 2:5)

(113) The Greek word for flood, "kataklusmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood. (II Peter 2:5)

(114) The old world perished by flood. (II Peter 3:6)

1 Does the Fossil Record prove Noah's flood ? on Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:53 pm

elshamah888

2 Re: Does the Fossil Record prove Noah's flood ? on Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:02 am

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3 Re: Does the Fossil Record prove Noah's flood ? on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:53 pm

elshamah888